Conversation between Richard Dawkins and Bishop Harries
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Conversation between Richard Dawkins and Bishop Harries Friday, February 20, 2009 Dawkins takes on the ex-bishop by Adam Rutherford Reposted from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/feb/13/dawkins-harries-debate Battle of the Oxford heavyweights over evolution turns into a bit of a love-up. Adam Rutherford keeps score It's not often you see two heavyweights limbering up for a prize fight among the dinosaurs of the Oxford University Museum of Natural History. Even rarer when the warm-up is set to the strains of Haydn. Last night Richard Dawkins and Lord Harries of Pentregarth (formerly Bishop of Oxford) did just that. They revisited the great evolution debate between Thomas Huxley (who was representing a poorly Darwin) and Bishop Samuel Wilberforce in the same location in 1860. Both claimed victory, though the consensus is that Huxley won on points. Huxley was known as Darwin's Bulldog, due, I presume, to his pugnacious defence of Darwin, rather than his pug-like appearance. Wilberforce fiercely opposed the science of evolution, and in the debate slung mud, asking if Huxley's ape ancestors were on his mother or father's side. Huxley cut back saying that he'd rather claim kindred with an ape than with a man who made such poor use of his intellect. There was no such vitriol last night. Dawkins is more like Darwin's border collie: patient, intelligent and forcefully industrious. The discussion centred not on Darwin or evolution, but on unanswerable questions of religion. That was disappointing because what is really important about Darwin is that he gave us a watertight theory of evolution, and that idea is what we should celebrate. It took a member of the audience to remind the panel of that. Dawkins is now better known for being an atheist than for his outstanding record as an evolutionary biologist and a science communicator. Dawkins refuses to engage with the creationists who cause those of a more rational disposition such ire. He's wisely following the maxim that suggests you should never argue with an idiot: the best possible outcome is that you win an argument with an idiot. Instead, in the debate, he conversed jovially with someone who agrees with him on every point about evolution. The referee, Jeremy Paxman, tried to inject some controversy into proceedings but soon gave up as the atmosphere remained congenial. Harries is about as liberal as ex-bishops get, and an epochal distance from the biblical literalists with whom he shares a deity. And this was highlighted as a problem. Harries' views are aligned with Dawkins about the truth of evolution, but out of touch with a large proportion of his flock. It is not clear how Harries or the church plans to deal with that. Before the big fight, Harries had tried to up the stakes with a little trash talking in the press, but it wasn't convincing. In fact, together they sound like two old pals having a warm ding-dong over a pint. As a result, it was a thoroughly pleasant evening of gentle sparring. Although science didn't feature much, the tone was much more in line with Darwin's humble disposition, and a far cry from the irritable mudslinging that so often characterises the clash of evolution and religion. For the record, Dawkins won. On points. ___________________________________________________________________________________ please leave a comment if you want, this is just to show what is out there... And before you go and spam, dl it watch it and make up your own mind... cheers the_phyrexian Are you a British citizen? Click here! (Petition to stop Sharia Law) http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/shariastop there is a reseed section, read it / use it... http://suprbay.org/forumdisplay.php?f=35 or visit my blog... http://thephyrexian.tk
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Thanks for the fine documentary!
robs
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Thanks. Sounds interesting.
Why can't Dawkins pick on someone who is a scientist like himself. Why pick mental flyweights all the time who just have their faith. I'm a christian that believes in evolution. the bible if read right also eludes to a first creation which god disgarded. John Polkinghorne, formerly a theoretical physicist at Cambridge University, is an Anglican priest. why not debate with him. Other scientists with faith in god could be found too. experts in evolution, physics and Biology. But dawkins likes to spar with southern pastors and racists to show they are ignorant of his lofty super knowledge that can only be gleemed from buying his books ($19.99 at all good stores) Atheism pays at least in this world. In the world of boxing a lightweight will always beat a flyweight. Why not have a serious level fight with a scientific colleague dawkins. Someone with credentials.
Any christian who believes in evolution is an idiot
@twaseverthus...haha, a secret, discarded creationism...uh...interesting.
Dawkins in this instance debated a person of religion. This isn't the only debate he has had on the subject. You can't debate Dawkins basing your ideas on the Bible since that side (the religious) will always assume some final authority that does not exist, ie that the biblical story is true. That isn't reason, that is faith. One might pick apart Dawkins' theories based on refutable fact, but no one does this because there is no other theory to counter Dawkins than the religious one and that one is always the same no matter who propounds it.
Dawkins in this instance debated a person of religion. This isn't the only debate he has had on the subject. You can't debate Dawkins basing your ideas on the Bible since that side (the religious) will always assume some final authority that does not exist, ie that the biblical story is true. That isn't reason, that is faith. One might pick apart Dawkins' theories based on refutable fact, but no one does this because there is no other theory to counter Dawkins than the religious one and that one is always the same no matter who propounds it.
Thanks for this Phy!
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